Episode 358

The Ins and Outs of Commercial and Multifamily Underwriting with Jake Clopton

Jake Clopton is a serial entrepreneur, author, and economist. With a focus in real estate and finance, he is actively involved in various aspect of commercial lending, insurance products, property ownership & management, and is a regular contributor to both print and broadcast media.

Current ownership and companies include;

  • Clopton Capital – Jake Founded Clopton Capital in 2009 as a way for property owners and operators to efficiently access both debt and JV equity for commercial properties deals. The company focuses on the small to middle market space and all asset classes. Since its inception, Jake and Clopton Capital have arranged Billions of dollars in financing for borrowers across the country.
  • Clopton Insurance Services – A national insurance agency that focuses solely on commercial property and business insurance.
  • Multiple apartment communities – Jake is the owner and operator of several apartment communities serving residents across the Chicagoland area.

Contributions to thought leadership include;

  • Author of “Commercial Real Estate Investing; Understanding, Finding, And Funding Deals in Todays world”
  • Regular Editorial content writer for Benzinga, National Mortgage Professional, Multi Housing News
  • Expert Guest on news shows including Good Morning Chicago
  • Primary Guest on an episode of “The Viewpoint” with Dennis Quaid

Connect with Jake Clopton!

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"You can invest 10,000 hours and become an expert or learn from those who have already made that investment." - Jack

Transcript
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Welcome to the REI Mastermind Network where host Jack Hoss gathers amazing stories from leaders in real estate investing.

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In each episode, our guests will tell you what they're doing that works what they've tried that failed, and best of all, you'll learn actionable steps to take your real estate investing.

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To the next level now, here's Jack with another value packed episode.

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We have Jake Clopton on Jake is with Clopton Capital and if you want to follow along and there is a ton of information on his website so head over to cloptoncapital.com.

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I'll make sure to have that link in the show notes, but we're going to be talking about a little bit of everything here today because Jake has some multifamily experience.

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And some commercial buying experience himself, but he's also a lender and he's here to help us bridge that gap.

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App as people are starting to transition from like single family home buying to multifamily and commercial property and and and everything in between.

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So, I really appreciate your time.

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Here today, Jake.

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Likewise, thanks so much for having.

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Me on appreciate it excited.

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So, I'm always curious, you know you?

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You mentioned that you started.

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That you do.

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Have some multifamily and rental properties of your own.

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Uh, what started you on that journey?

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Well, I so I.

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estate finance space in like:

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I'm in Chicago, so.

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Used to, you know, working out the training from here and you know, I like to invest in things that I understand.

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Like for instance, I'm a.

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Really bad stock picker so I don't buy stocks, but I understand real.

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Estate so the 1st.

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Building I bought was in:

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It was a 20-unit property, a mix of.

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Studios, one beds and two beds in Cicero, IL.

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You know at the time there wasn't a lot of people investing in Cicero, but you know, I did a lot of homework, you know, was my first property.

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So, I had, you know, went and sat outside the building.

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You could watch what was happening, stuff like that and you know I got really comfortable the area and we.

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Acquiring it and.

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now if you own property since:

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Done pretty well since then.

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Yeah, well, it's interesting that you jumped right into multi family.

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A lot of people like I mentioned before, we hit record that that's kind of aspirational.

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They'll start with single family homes, and they'll move up to a multi-family, but you kind of jumped right in.

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Yeah, you know, I I've.

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Looked at a lot of SFR stuff in.

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The past it's, you know it.

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Just again, it goes along with my theme of wanting to invest in things that I was comfortable with, and I really understood, right.

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So, I mean all day long I spent looking at P&L's for multifamily properties and I did loans for multifamily property.

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Right, so I mean what one of the things that helped me out was having the right connections to convince lenders to go into this area that they weren't really willing to look at.

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Before and so.

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You know, I mean that that's what kind.

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Of pushed me and they're just the familiarity of.

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It and the.

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Comfort level because I you know I'm not.

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I'm not an expert.

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I wasn't at least in.

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Just single-family home rentals in.

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In that lending side.

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So, like I said, you know you are kind of bridging that gap and filling that gap.

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Between as people are moving up to these multifamily.

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Like what are some of those things that people should expect are going to be the difference when it comes to underwriting these types of properties.

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Yeah, I mean, I think.

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The biggest difference is you know is.

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You know commercial it really.

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Is a different industry than just residential, right?

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I mean it's got a lot of different rules apply to.

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It's got a whole different set of lending criteria.

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Yeah, and then also managing these types of properties, right?

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It's a lot different.

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I mean just in general you know the mechanicals in a multi-family property is 20 units.

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Going to be totally different from just a.

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Single family home.

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And I think you know a lot of people that are looking to make that jump.

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You really need to understand and prepare themselves for, you know for what those.

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Differences are like on the operational side, you know, just managing a like that many units alone and one.

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Property you know that can be.

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You know, pretty cumbersome for a lot of people, and you know, for at least you know the first deal or so.

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I like to, you know, tell people to at least kind of lighting saws with a property management company so that they can actually at least see the way that it's operated, and you know, and stuff like that, you know the mechanicals.

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And some of the repair.

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'cause you know when it comes to a much larger building, I think you can kind of be surprising sometimes, so you know, just really getting a good handle on you know the various upkeep and operational side.

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I, I think it's you know.

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First and foremost, what you should really familiar familiarize yourself with.

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Uhm, the lending side is, you know it is much different as well.

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A lot of the people that I see that that I'm kind of helping bridge the gap.

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From just residential.

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To commercial right is you know I.

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I think the biggest you know thing that sticks out right away is that commercial loans.

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Blue and most residential ones don't right.

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I mean, if you're looking at residential mortgage, but you know a lot of times, you'll get like a 30-year fixed, right?

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And it just doesn't look.

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The vast majority of commercial loans are going to be 5-7 or 10 years fixed and balloon within those you know sometime in that period, so you know like understanding that and.

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You know the different costs involved; I think.

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Are you know, first and foremost the biggest issues.

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Well, since you brought up the balloon, and I suppose that's probably going to be what a lot of our listeners are like, OK, Now the balloon asked.

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Like how was that managed at that time when now this big, large sum of money is coming due?

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Does it typically roll over into a new loan?

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How does how does that all how does?

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That all looks.

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Yeah, I mean the life cycle of most commercial property ownership is actually sometime within those bloom period.

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So, a lot of people trade in and out of property stuff like.

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But so, a lot of times.

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You know we'll get borrowers that.

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Will you know do one of?

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Three things right eplin.

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You know they'll target, you know a property exit, you know, and to roll into another property.

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So, let's say in a 10-year timeline they you know obviously increase in value.

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They've got more equity in the deal and then they sell.

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time or game plan, then is to:

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A larger property.

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ght, and if you don't know at:

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You know capital gains on, you know.

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Be increasing by.

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Two, you know most what most people do is you don't, uh, recap.

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You know if they're going to continue ownership.

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So, and that's, you know, take cash out, cash out so. So, let's say you bought it $2,000,000 property.

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Five 710 years ago and now it's gonna balloon, right? And we're going, and that value has increased to 4,000,000 bucks, right?

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So technically today you can cash out up to 75% of that 4,000,000, so everything over your previous loan amount can go back to you as cash out proceeds. Those proceeds are actually.

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Not taxed.

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Either right?

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So, all that you know increase in value and all those that the tax liability stays within the property until you exit it.

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So, then you can again.

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Take those cash out proceeds and roll that into a new property.

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Other investment and stuff like that.

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There's a good arbitrage, you know you can make between what you're going to pay on your new loan and then what you can make.

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Is return on what?

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Whatever you can do?

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With that money.

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Right, I mean, I don't say taking the.

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Vegas, right? But.

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Normally, putting it into another property.

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Or you know, some people are.

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Just more conservative.

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And they going, you know, maybe approach the same lender to try to just redo the loan or you know go to another source to try to stretch out the amortization and not really take cash out and just roll the loan over to a new.

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Facility, so there's a couple different.

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Ways you can go.

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I mean at the end of the day, these are investments, right?

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And everybody investment profile is different.

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So, what's right?

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For one person.

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Is not right for the next, so it's really just going to come down to a personal investment.

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Profile what they're going to end up doing.

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Sure, so just a reminder, everybody head over to cloptoncapital.com for a lot more information and and especially regarding some of the details, because it's we're kind of going into the weeds on a few things here and it can get a little.

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It's easy to get lost.

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So, his website is a great resource in which to kind of sort some of.

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South, yeah Jake.

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This kind of leads me to my next question around.

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What does a person do then?

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In order to get ready to this graduation as they're going into multifamily?

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How do they get ready to make sure that they qualify for these larger loans? I know you're talking about loans, starting it essentially at $1,000,000.

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Or more for some of these multi-family properties or commercial properties.

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Right, right?

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So, you know.

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As far as getting ready I think just getting your ducks in a row on the operational side and you know, really understanding how this property is going to be operated.

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You know what you're realistically gonna make on this property, because I mean, I guarantee you whatever the sales broker has.

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Written down is not how it's gonna work out in reality.

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You know, and then it just understands.

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Things like you know the risk right involved in this property.

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You know in in how you're going to potentially pay for things that come up.

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I mean, you know, I, I know a lot of people get in a deal say Oh well, the roof is 30 years old, and you know we'll just handle things that come up.

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But that can be a pretty big cost, so you know, kind of ensuring that you know you're not overreaching and that you do have.

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Good reserves to handle unforeseen costs.

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You know, I, I think that that's one of the most important things is just, you know, make sure you're not over stretching yourself.

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That that's where I see the vast majority of people get into trouble, right?

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Unforeseen costs they overstretch themselves to get into it.

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And then all of a sudden thing just kind of cascade and.

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Spiral out of control from there.

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Another one of the big differences.

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In commercial versus residential and then it's you know election.

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In residential you kind of go get pre-approved for a loan.

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You know, a lot of people try to and then go.

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You know, find an investment property and say, hey, this is.

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How much I?

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Can afford, right?

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There's no preapproval in.

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So, it's a little bit backwards, so you know when you're going into the scenario you really need.

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I need to I, you know, in my timeline personally is fine.

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Get your equity together.

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Find the property you know, put together the team, the property manager, and then like the different aspects of your operational side and then go find the financing.

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Right, it's going to be almost impossible to for me to size, you know alone without a property, right?

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'cause commercial.

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The economics of the commercial loan are all depended on the economics of the property itself, not really the person behind.

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Find it right so.

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I mean, you know, those are some things that I think people could kind of understand and.

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Use to prepare themselves for the commercial space.

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Biggest difference is that you know in residential I.

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I think most of the credit decision comes from the person down, whereas commercial it comes from the property up.

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So, you know earlier you mentioned don't trust basically what the what the salesperson might have put on the.

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Property, you know it kind of reminds me I've said for quite a while, or this might be just my own personal belief.

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Now the proforma that's typically published is pretty much fiction.

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You kind of got to dive into those numbers.

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So, when you're when you're reviewing this property, you're not taking that pro forma you're.

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You're more curious as to how the buyer the potential buyer is going to, how they're going to run, the numbers, how they value it, and how it's almost like a business plan.

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Would that be a fair statement?

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That's it's a great way to put it, and I say this.

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All the time.

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Real states of this.

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Yes, right, it you know.

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I mean buying a stock with a dividend that's just an investment.

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That's not, you know, but like I mean, real estate is a real operating business, even in simple simpler properties like multifamily stuff like that, right?

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I mean there there's a real you know expense and revenue management side that needs to come along with these types of investments and.

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You're absolutely right.

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Like when I look at a broker pro forma you gotta realize that.

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I mean these broke.

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They real estate brokers.

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And I mean it's their job right there.

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Here's celp.

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Parties and they need to make it look as attractive as possible, right?

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And you know.

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And to do that like if you go on Loopnet, right?

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I mean a lot.

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Of people are going to search by cap rate and they have a Max.

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So, I mean realistically they want that cap rates to look as attractive.

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As possible effects, most.

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Most people, when we're when you're underwriting a property.

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From the credit side, yeah, I mean, you certainly look at the pro forma in the sales package, but realistically, I'd kind of set that aside and we really need the sellers P&L's.

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Right?

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But even more So what is something that's becoming even more common now? Is lenders requesting the seller's tax returns right?

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Because very often what's in the P&L versus the tax return can maybe be two different things, and you know that that that might be something that would be a good tip for a lot of buyers you know.

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Because you know what's in the tax returns tends to be, you know, a little bit more accurate than maybe just what's on IP now because at the end of the day, a P&L is just.

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Something that they created right?

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And you know?

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Additionally, there are certain.

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Like standard input, you know costs that you put into expenses, right?

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So, you know market management market vacancy, you know certain expense levels you know, and you can kind of back into those you know and do and what it what it really suggests is that anybody looking to you know, buy commercial property really does their own pro forma.

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Right, and understand like pull the property taxes, right?

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I guarantee.

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You and this is just how it is.

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Here every single broker you know sales performer I see has last year property.

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Taxes on it.

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You know what I mean?

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And I was.

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I was evaluating a property I think last year and the property taxes on it was just an apartment building property tax under like 25,000 bucks. And you know the buyer was.

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Making the decision to buy it based on, you know, probably tax 25,000 bucks and it turned out that it was actually jumping up to 60.

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The year after he was gonna buy it and that was already locked into the assessor's office, so surprised us like that could come out, and that's definitely gonna affect your cap rate, right?

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So, you know definitely checking into what all of those things are, and a lot of most of them are in public records, right?

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Like and, you know, sometimes you can find out the actual water bills were at.

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As for as.

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For the actual utility.

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Know what the property taxes are.

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You're going to be the year after you buy them, you know, and then input those market vacancy and management.

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You know, that's another underwriting thing that a lot of brokers leave out.

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You know, when their cap rate calculation, then I think you'll get a lot.

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Closer to what?

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The real return on this building is going to be.

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Yeah, no, you know one of the things is the lesson that I learned actually, and it seems like it goes by state because I I'm.

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Actually, on a border.

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Between Minnesota and north.

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Toyota and depending on the state taxes are calculated different and in North Dakota for example, just the act of the property changing hands and you buying at an increased value than what that person had bought.

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That's what drives the value of some of those commercial properties.

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So just the sale could.

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Bite you in the ****

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Down the road.

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Sure, absolutely.

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I mean, yeah, every assessor is a little different.

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Uhm, I mean the one here in Cook County is, you know, we're not going to go there but here quite a lot of times you know it.

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It really is like just the sale alone and there's just say, OK, let's just sold for 400 grand versus 200, which we had died before, so that's the.

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New value and now your property taxes.

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The double so I mean those are those are real numbers, right?

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I mean that that's real money that's going to go out the door and your investments.

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So, you definitely pay attention to that type of stuff.

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So, talk to about the like the personal like any kind.

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Kind of what a person would need, whether it's credit history, what money they should have as a down payment, anything that that they might need to bring to the table.

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Right, so I'm gonna talk specifically about habitational properties like so, like multifamily stuff like that if you if you're somewhere around anywhere from.

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Let let's say.

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$600,000 at an acquisition price up to.

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200, right?

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The that that range there should be up to two million that.

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That range is going to.

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Like when you get over $1,000,000 in loan amount, you're going to have access to different types of loan facilities than you would in a sub $1,000,000 space. When you're when you're in this, like when you're in the loan amount space, that's.

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Below 1,000,000 bucks.

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The vast majority of the financing in that space is going to be from local banks and.

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Credit unions, right?

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And I always.

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Tell people that's don't go to Bank of America for small loans. I'll get a large guy go literally go to like whatever bank you can find that's closest to the property like a 12-branch bank. That's going to be your best lender for small, you know, commercial properties like that.

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And the down the middle down our down payment answer is going to be, you know 25 maybe 20% depends on who it is I think you know probably maybe some credit unions will give you like high up to 80% LTV on stuff like that. But yeah, I think 80% of the answers are going to be 25% down payment.

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So, 75% LTV Max and probably you know when you're in this sub $1,000,000 loan space you know the vast majority of terms are going to be a five-year fix in a 25.

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Right, that that's not a bad deal if you're talking about, you know 600,000 bucks. I've got two buildings that have loans just like that.

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I'm I've been doing nothing but arranging loans for 14 years and that's what I ended up with, so I think that's most people are gonna end up with.

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You know, as far as like personal credit for a commercial loan, you really, I mean the things that you.

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Really need to, you know, avoid or.

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I mean like blemishes, right?

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I mean they're not looking for.

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You to complete.

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Really, you know, carry the property on your own.

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It's got its own income, right?

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But what they want it?

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You know what they're really going to search into is 2 things.

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Are there any bad credit history you have?

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Bankruptcies, judgments, stuff like that?

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I mean, the bare minimum credit score that most liners are going to deal with.

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Is like a.

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650 you know so.

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You know, make sure.

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Obviously, it's a.

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It's alone, it's a credit decision, so you know.

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Make sure when you're going into this stuff that you know your kind of clean up the credit profile.

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If you've got, I don't know collections or stuff like that they can pull it down.

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You know, additionally.

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You know they're gonna want to look in again.

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Going back to this concept before not stretching itself right, we don't want to.

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Make sure that you still.

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You got, you know, some liquidity, some cash in the bank. After you buy this property and the down the middle answer that I usually tell people is if you have 10% of the loan amount in outside liquidity after you buy the property. That's a great place, right? So, you know you've got a 600.

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$:

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Outside of the down payment, that's a great place.

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To be and I.

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I think you know the vast majority of lenders were going to agree.

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So, you know you mentioned then we talked about it being treated as a business and and essentially having a running your own pro forma.

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Do you take into account a track record like if somebody has other multifamily properties they've shown historically that this is their kind of wheelhouse that they know what they're doing?

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So, the track record you know isn't necessarily gonna affect the underwriting right of the property itself.

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You know, we're gonna underwrite the property to like whatever the real expenses are.

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The track record comes.

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Comes more into the decision of whether or not this person.

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Is going to.

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Operate this property themselves.

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You know what I mean?

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Like for there's a big difference between.

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Hey, this guy is buying a 20 and apartment building.

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He owns ten others, and he manages all of them himself.

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Great, he can manage his property there, and there's a bigger between that.

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And hey, this guy owns two single family homes.

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He's now buying a 20-apartment building.

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He's also going to operate it himself.

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And that that might be a big ask, right?

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I mean, it's.

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It's not only a much bigger asset, there's also.

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It's also a different type of asset, and it's really going to come down to the fact whether or not you know somebody gonna lend against this property with you as the manager.

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That's why you know.

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And I really, really would advise people that are.

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Getting in at stop it you know too.

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At least for the first year, two years have a real professional property manager in their pay them a fee.

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Whatever it is you know, you can learn, you know everything that they're going to do and really understand the process and your end goal is to manage yourself.

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I would go that direction right, at least for the First deal minimum.

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I think to be tough to get approval on.

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Any ways to do the manager?

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But you know, just risk wise that that.

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Would be the smarter way to go?

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Sure, no.

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That that makes a lot of sense.

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That's so with all that being said, it sounds like, would it?

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Would it be fair outside of the of the down payment?

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I mean, you're trying to come up with 20 percent, 25% down payment? That's probably going to be the biggest hurdle for people is to get that piece together. Or is there anything else they should be aware of?

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You know, outside of really keeping their credit clean and having this good business plan of like the on the operational side, you know there.

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There's not.

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Really, ultimately, that much that a person themselves.

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Really neat, I mean you know the property is going to be the vast majority underwriting, so I think as long as they you know they manage their credit well and they've got, you know, a good amount of outside liquidity and a good business plan in place.

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I think the deal gets done I.

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I mean it.

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It's real estate at the end of the day, like I mean, it's not.

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It's not rocket science.

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Right, there's, but there's more than enough.

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Ways to trip yourself up, but if it's just about having those you know the right things in place, which is the credit, liquidity and the operational side.

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So is there like let's say a person comes with a property at A at a great price.

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I mean, that's one of the specializations that we do is finding properties at deep discounts.

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Is the equity there that can be achieved through those type of negotiations.

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Can it be considered part of that down payment?

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So that's a good question, and I do see that pretty often in.

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You know residential world, right?

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Ultimately, the answer is really no.

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The lenders in commercial space.

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There's a.

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There's a term called cost basis consideration right that that's going to go into these deals, and you know, there's also kind of like, uh, evaluation.

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Consideration of it's worth.

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What somebody will pay for it, right?

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Let's.

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Say you know.

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I and I get this I get this request all the time, right?

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Hey, I'm buying this property.

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I've negotiated the purchase price a million and a half bucks.

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I have an appraisal that says it's worth 2 1/2 right. I want 75% of the.

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2 1/2.

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And unfortunately, not gonna work that way.

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The way it's going to go is they're going to go off of it, you know, and you'll see.

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This in terms.

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It's also the Max valuation is going to be appraised value or purchase price.

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The lower of the two, right?

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So, we're always going to go off of purchase price for acquisitions the typical window when cost basis consideration.

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Can burn off.

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And you can, you know, let's say recap, you know to you know to refinance all that stuff out to the appraised value.

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It's going to.

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Be somewhere around the two-year Mark.

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That's where the vast majority of commercial lenders are going to completely burn off the cost basis.

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Now I, I'm quite often recap stuff.

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nd you know we get up to like:

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There is a different consideration for people that are buying and doing value.

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Add meaning, like rehabbing it, they're creating value, but if you're just buying a property that's fully stabilized and you're getting a great deal you got a great deal, right?

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But it it's not going to ultimately affect how much.

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Loan dollars they're willing.

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So, it is.

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It is different if there's a way that the buyer is adding value.

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Yes, there are.

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But that's probably a whole other episode.

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Yeah, I mean well there's a whole bunch of value engineering ways to do things, right?

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I mean, especially in the construction side, there's a lot of you know, like when people are doing construction, there's a lot of step-up land basis plays you can do, and all this stuff, but when you're when you're buying something that's a fully baked asset as it is.

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And you know, you're just getting a good price on it.

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They're gonna use that price that you're paying for it, right?

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You might have to wait a little while to really realize you know all of that.

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You know extra value.

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Or creating a closing, but you know I, I think what that really does for a lot of people is, you know if they are going to bring in investors.

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It lets them capitalize the equity side.

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You know much, much easier.

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Sure, so you also mentioned before we hit record something about joint ventures.

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How does that work for you?

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Right so I do have a lot of experience in the equity sides as well and we do. We do joint venture at like limited partner equity for like really big developments, right? Like minimum check size of 3,000,000.

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But I.

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Can also kind of speak to like.

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You know some of the guys that.

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We kind of shepherd through the process of moving from friends and family equity up to joint venture equity.

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We talked a bit more about.

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Like how they use friends and family equity to capitalize, you know their initial deals you.

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Know most of the and.

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These are called syndicators, right?

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Most the syndicators we deal with kind of got their start like.

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I mean everybody starts the bottom for the most part, right?

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And you know, if, unless they're working for some real estate company, 1/2 houses that go up a little bit more threats.

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Four flats mult into multifamily, then they and then people start seeing what they're doing right, and they start pulling in investors.

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You know when, when you start pulling in more and more investors.

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You know which is what?

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I think most people wanna do you.

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You have to.

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You know you have to start moving up and asset size pretty quickly.

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Now kind of explain why most investors you're going to bring in are not going to want to sign recourse on the loans, right?

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So, let's say.

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You know you want to buy a 20-unit property and it costs 1,000,000 bucks, right? And you can leverage that up to 75%.

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So, you need 250 grand you put in 50 and then you've got four other investors that put in 50, but none of those guys want to sign on record.

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Well, now you only.

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Own 50 grand of equity but you your recourse on the whole thing, right?

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So maybe that's OK for the first one, but after the second one you see it.

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I mean your liability started quickly outweigh your assets because now you've signed on, you know, as recourse for everybody.

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So, once you start.

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Doing the investor route what you have to do is move into larger properties where you can get more sophisticated types of finance where you can get non-recourse financing.

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And non-recourse is really just, you know it's the entire recourse of the loan is based on the property, so there's no personal guarantee attached to it.

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So, what that does is that allows you know syndicators who are pulling in investor capital to be able.

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To be the general.

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Partner on basically as many properties as they.

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What and the their liabilities won't outweigh their assets, right?

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Because they're not signing on alone, they're just getting equity every time and and and that's what you know most.

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The vast majority syndicators they run into that, you know, contingent liability, you know, dilemma very quickly and it's just.

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As soon as you start going that way, pulling investor equity, you've got to start moving up the chain to get non-recourse.

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Answer so that that's a.

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It's the biggest thing to keep in mind once you start getting investors.

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Sure, so you know, there's obviously a lot to cover here and and you should really rely on a Jakes website for some additional information and insight to try to clarify some things.

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So, head over to cloptoncapital.com like I said.

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I'm going to.

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Make sure I have those links in the show notes and I've already went over.

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The time that I promised I was going to try to keep this to Jake.

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So, with that being said is.

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Oh yeah.

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Is there a question you wished I would have asked you here today?

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I mean, one of the things that I think is really important for you, know, investors to try to look into and one thing that really helped me out a lot is that there are a lot of maybe local governmental.

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Or local utility.

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Programs that you know will give people discounts and or pay for energy efficiency projects in their own buildings.

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For instance, we were able to get almost free boilers.

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We got free insulation and the last thing like that would save this enormous amount of money in a couple buildings because I looked into these types of programs.

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And the vast majority people don't know they exist, and I don't think it's.

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I don't know if they're in every market, but here in Cook County, Chicago they do, and I think it's worth everybody looking into.

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Are those types of programs for energy efficiency because you can save.

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Enormous amount of money.

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So no, that's a great tip and and I'm guilty of that.

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I'm sure I could take advantage of some things that I'm not.

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I could tell you from personal experience, we saved well over 100,000 bucks by.

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Looking into it.

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Yeah wow.

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That's some big savings.

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Well, I, I really appreciate you providing that last bit of.

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I mean, if everyone everybody waited to the end there, they probably definitely made.

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This was definitely worth the time investment just to listen to this episode, so I really appreciate your time, Jake.

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I hope you'll consider coming back again sometime.

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I like I said I have a feeling we could spend a whole.

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Half hour just on the one of the many categories that we talked about here today.

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Yeah, let's do it anytime I appreciate.

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If you learned at least one actionable step to incorporate into your real estate investing.

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If so, please consider returning some of that value by leaving a positive review, subscribing to our YouTube channel, or joining our growing network on Facebook and Twitter.

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You can find links to all of our social media accounts in the show notes. See you next time.