Episode 348

Land Wholetailing with "The Land Geek" Mark Podolsky

Today’s guest is known as “The Land Geek.” Mark Podolsky is widely considered to be the country’s most trusted and foremost authority on buying and selling raw, undeveloped land. Today, Mark will share his journey into the world of buying, selling, and leasing raw land as an investment. He has actively invested in real estate and raw land for almost twenty years, and has completed over 5,000 unique transactions in that time.

Mark J. Podolsky ( also known as the Land Geek ) is the Managing Member of the Land Geek Enterprises, Managing Director of Frontier Properties, Founder of GeekPay.io and a former Investment Banker at Dinan Company and Dental Consultant at AFTCO & Associates. He is widely considered the Country’s most trusted and foremost authority on buying and selling raw, undeveloped land within the United States. He has been actively investing in Real Estate and Raw Land since 2001, and has completed over 5,000 unique transactions. Mark’s company, Frontier Equity Properties, LLC, is an A+ rated BBB real estate company. He is also the host of one of the top rated podcasts in the Investing Category on iTunes aptly titled The Best Passive Income Model and  the host of the Land Geek Podcast.

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"You can invest 10,000 hours and become an expert or learn from those who have already made that investment." - Jack

Transcript
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Welcome to the REI Mastermind Network, where host Jack Hoss gathers amazing stories from leaders in real estate investing.

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In each episode, our guests will tell you what they're doing that works what they've tried that failed, and best of all, you'll learn actionable steps to take your real estate investing.

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To the next level.

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Now here's Jack with another value packed episode.

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We have the land geek Mark Podolsky on the call again and mark you haven't been on the show for a while, so this is.

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Going to be a treat.

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We're going to revisit a few things, but I'm going to direct everybody to your page because you can hold tail land.

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And Mark and his team can help you with some.

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Of this, we've talked about whole \tailing, single family homes on the podcast in the past, so this is going to be an interesting conversation.

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thelandgeek.com/quickdeals.

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Thanks for being on the show, Mark.

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JD so great to be back.

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Thanks Brother, appreciate it.

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So, let's talk about this concept here whole tailing land.

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What do you got going on here on?

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This alright so you remember the model, right?

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We're going to go ahead and we're going to get a list from the county of people that are low hanging fruit people that live out of state.

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No back taxes, right?

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And then we're going to look at the lowest comparable sales.

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Let's say the lowest comparable sale on that property in Texas that we've probably talked about in episode one.

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send an actual offer out for $:

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Well, this person has no emotional attachment.

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The land and they're distressed financially in some weird way because they're not paying their property taxes.

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As a result, the county treasurer keeps in their notices, say hey, don't pay property taxes.

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You lose it to attacks.

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Lead or tax lien investor and three to 5% of people accept our quote UN quote top dollar offer of $0.25 on the dollar and then once they accept that offer, we go through our due diligence or in-depth research going to confirm you still own the property. Back taxes are only $200.

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There's been no breaks in the chain of title.

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There's no liens or encumbrances.

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I want to know about legal access or ingress or egress.

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What's compelling about the property and we outsource all that to our team in the Philippines for about 11 bucks.

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title company. I'm investing:

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But what if JD everything?

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I just told you we can eliminate.

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We don't have to get a list.

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We don't do county research.

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We don't have to price the list.

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We don't describe a list.

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We don't have to invest money in mailing.

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We don't have to do due diligence.

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All that can be eliminated.

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That's where the whole piece comes in.

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Well, somebody will call them.

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The wholesaler has already done all that work for us now, as long as they're a reputable wholesaler, which means that they've you know in our community you can, you know, make sure that they've done lots of wholesale deals and that they leave enough meat on the bone for you.

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The retailer you just.

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Get their due diligence report.

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You get their plat maps.

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You get their aerial maps; you get their satellite maps.

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You get everything that a buyer is going to know. Your whole marketing package is delivered there for you. For as a result you're going to pay a little bit higher premium than doing all that work yourself, but you don't care because the wholesaler should have left about 100% worst case scenario on a cash flip.

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Meat on the bone.

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For you, but you have to do your numbers and then all you're going to do is the second half.

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Of the model, which is the marketing piece.

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So, when we're marketing JD, do you remember we have a built in Best Buy?

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Or do you know who it is?

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Yeah, the neighbors.

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The neighbors, you got it.

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Right, we're going to send.

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Out those negative buddies.

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Hey, see I remembered I listened to you last time.

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Remember, so we're gonna stop those neighbors saying, hey, is your opportunity know your neighbor?

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Protect your privacy, protect your views.

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Now, if the neighbors pass, we're going to our buyers list, but we don't have a buyers list for just a newbie.

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Then we're going to go to a little website called Craigslist type Most traffic website United States. Then we'll go to Meta or Facebook, right? Bicycle groups the marketplace in the Lands land motor com landfarm.com miasm erica.com.

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Land foot, comma and hub.com all these platforms for people I'd sell raw land every day, but the magic happens in our pricing.

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So, if we bought it.

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Let's say for a thought.

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$:

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That, but we can always make more money.

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We can't get more time, so the game I like to play is I want to create a passive income stream.

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So, if I bought it for $:

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as all you have to do is put $:

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So, it's a one-time sale.

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We get our passive income every single month, just like somebody that is landlording.

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Home but JD.

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We've eliminated all the headaches.

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No renters know rehabs, no renovations, no rodents.

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And then the game is can we create enough of this land?

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Notes can those months to connect that mailbox money of 299 a.

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Month add up.

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To you know, it starts off like stick grocery money.

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Then it goes into vacation money.

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It's you know, in car payment money then you're at mortgage money and next thing you know am I going to quit my job and work because I want to, not because I have.

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Too, and that's the game that we play, yeah?

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And Manuel, what a lesson here. In the first few minutes and just a quick note, we're talking about Episode 117, so take a look at that episode because it kind of lays down the groundwork for what we're talking about here.

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But this is.

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Really, a powerful message that you have here.

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Mark is the concept.

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You know, I actually revisit your episode with me few times because you don't have any idea.

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I'm sure you have an idea how appealing what you're talking about is when you're talking about raw land because of the headaches and and trouble that you can have when yourself.

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Being a self-landlord with some of these actual rental properties.

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Yeah, I mean I, you know, I've never.

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I've never been a landlord.

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I would never want.

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Headache, but I can only imagine we.

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And you're right, we have a lot of clients that come in from that space and all those headaches disappear and they are so grateful to just be able to shuffle paper and make money.

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Yeah, you know one of the things that I that all that floored me in that first time that we were talking about and and your traditional method and finding these properties and you're essentially trying to maintain this note.

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But what you've what you've really been able to do in most cases is.

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You find the property.

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You might have to have a little financial outlay at first, but your buyer will typically make that as your down the down payment.

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Or are you trying to make that as your down payment and then still carry a note after the fact that just blew my mind?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So, get your capital out as fast as possible.

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And even if you have to go.

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10 months out.

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So, what you've got this asset that lasts forever, and if they default, big deal.

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ead of your cost basis being $:

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Well, what's your cost basis now a?

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100 bucks so.

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get another down payment of $:

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You know you keep saying 299 a month is that your magic number? Is that the one you're trying to try to hit each time?

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Not necessarily.

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I want to.

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I want a number that is a car payment number.

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So oftentimes I'll look at what's the best selling you know, car in the United States?

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Is it you know?

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Is it it's Camry?

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And I go on and say, OK, what's the average Camry payment?

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And that kind of gives me an idea, so I want to be in that ballpark there 'cause that's gonna be our biggest buyer pool.

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And and, well, you know, it just happens to be that $300 mark is typically what an investor is going to see as a return for a single-family house in most markets as well.

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I mean, it just happens to be and now you don't have the refrigerator going out, or a few other things that happen that.

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Makes that cash flow disappear in a heartbeat.

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Yeah, I mean I love the idea of nothing physical and nothing to maintain, nothing to protect and just the fact that it's such a boring.

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Niche, there's no competition.

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You're not going to go on HDTV.

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The DIY Network can see flip this land.

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I'll pick 4 pictures are all in the after pictures are all end, so we have this sort of boring geeky niche that sure.

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I mean if you go to a REIA meeting, right real estate, that's an association meeting 100 people in the room, 99 of them are going to be wholesalers, landlords, and flippers.

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You and I the only land guys which I like because we have this massive market, and you know very few players right?

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So, you know you talked originally, you know you, you mail out these the $0.25 on the dollar offers and then whoever comes back to you are the ones that you deal with. Could you spend a little time talking a little bit about what you what you have to do to educate?

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That seller, when they come to you and and the type of relationship and and a few other things that you might have to communicate with them so that.

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They understand and they're fully on board with what you're what you're trying to accomplish.

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Yeah, I mean oftentimes this asset is no longer asked that.

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It's a liability.

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So, in the same way, if I made you an offer 25% of a dollar for everything that you're not using in.

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Your garage how?

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Quickly would you accept that offer?

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Probably pretty quickly.

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You don't know my garage.

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Right, yeah, exactly my garage is the same way, so typically all I have to tell the seller is the closing process and I'm just saying.

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I'm going to go through due diligence if everything checks out, I'm going to email you a deed and then all you're going to do is print out that deed, sign it, notarize it, your local UPS store should have a notary and then send it back to me.

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Once I record it and I use simplified to record so I can just scan it with my phone.

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Record it I get.

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Confirmations recorded I'll send you a check.

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And that's it.

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And that's the closing process, and I say it just like.

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That now 99% of time they say great 1% of time.

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They say wait a second.

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I'm going to deed over my property.

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Oh you're, I'm going to just trust that you're going to send me a check and then I say, well, how about if we do this together?

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If I make the simplest, most transparent.

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You know easiest real estate transaction you've ever had in your entire life.

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So as soon as I get the deed, I'm going to call you as soon as I sign it, or as soon as I receive it, I'm going to call you.

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I'm going to then show you a screenshot of me recording it.

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I'm going to show you a little home video of me writing out the check and then going to the shipwright store, where I've learned to mailing it to your priority mail.

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You're going to receive it once you cash that check.

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The money is in your bank.

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Will you do me a favor?

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Will you make me a video testimonial for my website?

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Saying that mark was so easy to work with, this is such a pleasant transaction.

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Here's a guy that when he says he's going to do something, does it.

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And then for the next person, then they'll have more faith that this process is going to work and also between you and me, JD.

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You know, for $:

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So, I don't want to be out of business.

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I want to treat you right.

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Fair enough, later deal.

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Yeah, no, that's awesome.

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So, you let's back up there for a second you do you have to.

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You don't have to go through like a title company like with a single family.

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Not if it's:

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OK.

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ur example was only you know $:

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So, what was that service that you?

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Used when it's:

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How do you?

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How do you?

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Well, actually the service is simplify.com that now that is just to record deeds. So, my whole philosophy is I can always make more money.

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I can't get more time so simplify.

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I only I only work simplified comedies because they make it so easy.

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h OK, that's interesting. So,:

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I'll self-close.

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No, I mean I'm opportunistic.

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So, I mean, you know whether it's raw land or a collectible or a car you buy any asset.

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$0.25 a dollar there's someone else on the other end of that deal at $0.50 on.

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The dollar, so if whether it's a postage stamp size or 640 acres, I really don't.

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Sure, OK.

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Is there any land you just won't touch?

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The only land I won't touch is land that.

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Is in a Superfund site.

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So that means that it's been. It's having an environmental issue. Otherwise, if I can buy any land $0.25 a dollar, I'm going to buy it.

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As you know, I mean obviously it's gotta have some used to it now.

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Would I buy swampland in Florida?

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Absolutely, you can.

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Gross you're talking mushrooms.

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On it, so as long as I disclosed to the next buyer great place to buy to grow stacky mushrooms, absolutely.

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Would I buy in a floodplain?

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Well, if somebody wants to take their ATV out there and play in the water, absolutely now would I tell somebody in a floodplain?

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Here's a place to build your dream home.

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Absolutely not so as long as I'm doing my marketing correctly and marketing to the right person, my threshold is really low.

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Right?

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I mean, I.

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I bought land that you know because I'm not the market like you and I would never buy this land.

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I mean, this stuff looked like true noble, but at the right price at all sold, no refunds and I also do a 90-day additional due diligence guarantee as well.

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So, if they don't love it, I'm just going to refund them.

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Sure, sure, OK.

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So, you know you, you talk about the due diligence.

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Can you spend a little time talking about the due diligence you do?

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Like, let's start with you creating your list. You're targeting this land for the $0.25 on the dollar. Do you have somebody go through that list of land and and validate?

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The value of in that area, what the value would be so you can come.

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Up with your number.

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Well, not necessarily, because this is all public information.

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I just want to look at the last compare.

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Will sell when lowest comparable sales last 12 to 18 months so that validates the market for me.

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And then I'll divide by 4.

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And then you just send out.

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The letter.

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And I sent out the letter you, that's it.

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So just to remind everybody, head over to the land geek com slash quick deals and there's a lot of information on Mark.

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's website so it's.

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A great place to just kind of fish around and see what else you can find so this whole tailing thing is relatively new, like last time we talked you we were talking about.

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The your standard process.

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Now you're as essentially starting to.

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You're building a whole wholesaler network, right?

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Like how has that been going it's?

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Right?

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It's been going great, and I think the best way to learn anything is by doing it, and so if we can simplify that process and it'll help people just make quick money, then they're more likely to go deeper into the model and learn more.

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So that's why we offer it as a free course.

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Make some money and if you want to invest more.

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Well, you have another Ave too.

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Invest more in yourself in education or you can.

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Learn on your.

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Own, but at least you have confidence that this is a model that actually works without taking too big of a risk.

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Can you give us an example of like one of your students who've recently pulled one of these off and what type of return and what the deal?

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Look like.

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Yeah, I mean I've got lots of examples.

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I get these boxes and and emails every day.

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I'll just you know I'd have to go on like you know right now to like play it, but just to save time, I could, you know send you some, but essentially like what I'm, I'm thinking of the.

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Put $200 they did what we call a dark deal.

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So, they put $100 down so land our land arbitrage so they bought it for $100 from us, right?

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Knowing that the market they could get $500 down into $200 a month so they're paying us $100 down $100 a month. And then they just flipped it for $500.

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200 a month.

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And their yield on that is.

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Crazy yeah that that I just it.

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Every time we talked numbers associated with this, I questioned why I haven't attempted this because we talked about the area of the world that I am and it's nothing but land around me.

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Yeah, I don't.

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Know JD but you know I mean.

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You were creeping up.

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Pictures of habit.

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That's the problem.

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Your creatures of.

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Exactly, and I think there is something about focus and there is something to be said about not chasing every shiny object so.

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Yeah, yeah, that's that.

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That is true.

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What you focus on always grows right.

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Exactly.

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So OK, well.

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Uhm, with that being said, like, let's talk, let's talk about going through some of that.

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Some of that process you talked about your virtual assistants.

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What type of work do they do for you then?

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So, my team is, let's just take the first piece of the process, right?

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Talking to the seller.

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So, you get that you send that offer to the seller.

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Well, I don't want to spend all day on the phone talking to sellers, so we call that the intake manager. The intake manager simply US based.

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And they're compensated two ways.

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The 1st way is a low hourly rate because they really make their money.

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They get compensated for renegotiating with the seller.

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So, when they're talking to the sellers, they're asking the seller questions and then they're leading the due diligence team.

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They come back to the.

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Seller and say.

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Hey I know.

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That we offered you $:

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So, for every $:

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OK.

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Now sometimes it's not appropriate to renegotiate, no problem, they will get a little, you know. Bonus of, say you know $100 for acquiring that property.

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And leading it down the road.

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So that's the first part is the intake manager, and they might have just a low hourly, maybe 10 bucks an hour, so they're getting really paid for doing.

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No sure.

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Their job and buying the land now after the intake manager we have our due diligence team. I don't want to do the do the due diligence, so again we're going to have a team in the Philippines that's connected to an American title company and there's already people out there that are doing this. There's land VA in the number 4U com.

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They'll do your due diligence for you.

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There's parcel, I think it's a parcel review.

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Com they'll do your due diligence for you.

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There's land masters dot US. They'll do your due diligence for you, so we've created like a little mini economy of people that actually learn the land business and will do it for you.

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So that's another way to do it.

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Now you can start with them.

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Look at their systems and processes and then go to likeanupwork.com or fiber.com and ultimately hire your own person. But you never want to be person dependent. It's all about those processes and systems, sure.

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The process and system is really what's valuable, not the person.

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So that's so.

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That's the second sort of major role is your due diligence person, and then you want to have your market.

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Manager or marketing team who's going to upload the ads to Craigslist and Facebook and lanmou.com. It's a lot of copying paste, but someone needs to do it and then you created a processing system for each. You know platform. Because Facebook certainly is going to be different than Craigslist and their algorithms.

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Going to be different than something else, but we're going to use the four fundamentals of marketing.

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Just because, you know.

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Obviously, tactics are always changing, but what are the fundamentals?

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You want a strong headline, right?

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You want what I call it anchor.

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So, an anchor is 1 price.

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And then there's it's crossed out with a lower price.

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They can't Unsee it, so there's instantly use the in the buyer's mind.

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This is a great value.

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Now it is, but psychologically that anchor gives them some reference point of the value of the land.

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Because we're in an inefficient market, you can't go on Zillow.

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And see the comparable sales on that role.

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And so, we may have to have something, so you have a strong headline and anchor.

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Then you need to have scarcity or urgency.

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This is one of one piece of raw land.

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They'll never be another one, just like it.

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Ever on the planet so and at this price it's not going to last long, so you inject that scarcity in urgency.

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And then you have a clear call to action.

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Here's how you can control this piece of property risk free call this number.

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Hit this email right sure and induce that.

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Here, right?

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So as long as they inject those four.

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Pieces in every marketing piece we have processed.

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The system for.

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But then it's pretty easy to make the marketing copy from there, so that's another VA.

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And then we have our acquisition manager that's managing the team overall and making sure that they're closing these sales with the new buyers that want to buy our property and then managing the note process using Geek Pay.

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IO which are said is our sudden forget it software.

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And then managing LG Pasela calm on the front end, which is our sort of our CRM managing the business. So, it's 90% automated now with software inexpensive virtual assistance.

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Sure, so that that geekpay.com that you just referred to that's served.

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Auto dictate dot IO yeah.

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Geek pig dot IO that's servicing the note.

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Essentially, you know that's where they're making their payments.

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Correct, it's.

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Do you have to?

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Are you?

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Do you escrow like the taxes and stuff there as well then?

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Absolutely, so we collect the taxes as well and pay the taxes because the property still stays in our name.

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We're using a land contract as opposed to a deed of trusts, so there's no cost.

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So.

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Sure, and is there any anything else outside of that that that you would also escrow single family home?

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Some of those services would escrow insurance as well.

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There's no insurance necessarily, yeah, so typically it's just the taxes we charge a, you know, say $9 note collection fee.

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Right, sure.

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So, we're going to take that out as well, if it's if it's only called Property Owners Association, we might prorate that as well.

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Monthly, I try to stay away from sure.

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So, have you ever had a situation where you've managed?

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To get a.

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Piece of land under contract and and it ended up being more valuable than you initially thought.

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We you know.

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We find properties that are sometimes in the path of growth and then I don't sell those properties.

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I put them into my trust with explicit instructions for my children.

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Do not sell this property until you get a 7 figure offer from a developer.

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Oh sure, do you go through the like the process of getting it rezoned and and making it more attractive?

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Or developer.

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I typically don't, I just hold it and if someone would call then.

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You know, if I really see that this is just going to really blow up, then sure.

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I could do that.

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It's a pretty simple process.

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Sure, no.

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I was just curious on that that that process, because I I'm sure that's interesting you just kind of put it in the bank essentially into your trust and and hold onto it like that.

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Yeah, exactly, and there's it's.

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Got a land banking model.

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It's a traditional way of you buy land in the path of.

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And it's typically like a hockey stick model, so if you can picture a hockey stick, it's flat.

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Actually, it's negative cash flow 'cause you're paying the taxes every year and then development comes, and hockey sticks up and you, you know you.

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You may you know, all those, all that all those taxes and 100X from there.

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So, if.

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People liked here.

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You know this concept and what you're talking about here.

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Would you suggest that they started in their own backyard?

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I, I wouldn't because let's face it, JD.

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Nobody wakes up and thinks of those boys.

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I'd like some raw land today in North Dakota.

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And unless you.

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Live in North Dakota.

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So, I want to focus on the Sunshine States Nevada, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, California, Oregon, Washington, Florida.

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These are the sunshine states.

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A little bit in the northwest.

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And these are fast growing States, and these are states that have a ton of inexpensive raw land.

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Not to say you can't do deals in North Dakota, you can.

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It's just I wouldn't start there.

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I want to start with my biggest buyer pool as possible.

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Well, you would you specify state that they should probably do some target you know to spread across the United States or even the sunshine states.

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Unless you have some track, record and and understand what you're talking.

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About here, that's going to be expensive and daunting.

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Right, right so?

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Yeah, so let's say your total newbie, right?

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Let's say I'm just starting out fishing and I go in the lake with you and you're a great fisherman, right?

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And I see, oh, there's JD and there's twelve other boats on this one bank, and they're catching all these fish.

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Then I see there's.

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Two other boats.

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On the opposite end, and they're not catching anything.

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Should I go where there's?

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Less competition for the fish.

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Or should I go where the people are?

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Catching the fish.

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I'm going to go with the catching the fish, so I want to go where I know definitively.

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Other land investors have a strong market and I'm going to send out my.

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Offers there sure.

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Well, this is kind of an interesting thing concept too, because you just talked about.

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Competition essentially, you know everybody is trying to get in the flipping business.

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If you will, you know they see HDTV and the competition is very heavy.

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In fact, you know it's hard to find.

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And flippable houses.

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Actually, in most markets these days, what would you classify?

::

The competition looks like when it comes to.

::

The raw land.

::

Well, there's billions of acres of raw land available.

::

There's no hedge funds, there's no private equity groups.

::

There's no big money, and it's a very boring niche.

::

en doing this full time since:

::

But no, all ships rise the tide.

::

There's plenty for everybody.

::

Sure, sure, just remind everybody the land geek com slash quick deals to take advantage of what Mark is talking about here today and and some of his training opportunities mark this is.

::

It's always a great conversation to have with you.

::

I always find this just fascinating.

::

The concept.

::

Of raw land and and I had warned you at the beginning of the before we hit record that I was going to end the show with is.

::

Is there a question you wished I would have?

::

Asked you here today.

::

You know I; I wish you asked more.

::

About what it takes, the mindset of a great land investor.

::

What does it take?

::

It takes one word, grit.

::

Grit, grit are you.

::

Able to continue and I do have enough determination to continue in a new endeavor and be comfortable being uncomfortable long enough until you have confidence.

::

Because on a long enough timeline, we're all going to get paid as long as we're playing in the right niche.

::

So, Elon Musk works probably just as hard as our corner grocer.

::

He gets paid way more money.

::

He's just playing in the right area so I would say that.

::

On a long enough timeline, as long as you have enough grit and you're in the right, niche real estate, right?

::

Or some other type of strong business with a big market staying there long enough to get competence that that's what I would say.

::

Too often you see people that they're competent in one area.

::

Yeah, then they feel uncomfortable and then they don't get success right away.

::

Like oh, I'm not good at this.

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I'm going to quit and if they just stayed with it long enough, they would have tremendous success.

::

So, I love that Zig Ziglar quote.

::

If you'll do it for next three to five years, what other people won't do, you'll be able to do it for the next year next.

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The rest of your life.

::

That people can't do but knows he said.

::

Three to five years, not three to five months.

::

Yeah, when you were saying that it reminds me of a cartoon I see on Facebook and the socials quite often you see that the person he's mining and he and he's just inches away from hitting.

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That gold, but he gives up.

::

Exactly, you know that's really.

::

That's a great advice.

::

Is that persistent, consistent behavior that we're talking about on a regular basis?

::

So, I really appreciate your time.

::

I hope you don't take as long of a stretch.

::

Next time, please come back soon.

::

I we I've I felt like I jumped around a little bit on you here tonight but there's always some great information.

::

No, I'm happy to come.

::

Back to the book here.

::

Have you learned at least one actionable step to incorporate into your real estate investing?

::

If so, please consider returning some of that value by leaving a positive review, subscribing to our YouTube channel, or joining our growing network on Facebook and Twitter.

::

You can find links to all of our social media accounts in the show notes.

::

See you next time.