Episode 352

How to Be a Trusted Online Resource with Kurt Uhlir

Kurt Uhlir is a globally-recognized marketer, operator, and speaker. He’s built and run businesses from start-up to over $500M annual revenue, assembled teams across six continents, been part of the small team leading an IPO ($880M), and participated in dozens of acquisitions.

He was at the front lines creating several of the marketing channels we all use today, including social media management, influencer marketing, and location-based marketing. In recent years, he has focused on helping individual business owners and marketing agencies, with a heavy focus on real estate.

Kurt and his team have analyzed more than 50,000 real estate websites over each of the past 3 years, and the agent businesses behind them, to identify what works in modern marketing.

Connect with Kurt Uhlir:

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"You can invest 10,000 hours and become an expert or learn from those who have already made that investment." - Jack

Transcript
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Welcome to the REI Mastermind Network, where host Jack has gathers amazing stories from leaders in real estate investing.

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In each episode, our guests will tell you what they're doing that works what they've tried that failed, and best of all, you'll learn actionable steps to take your real estate investing.

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To the next level.

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Now here's Jack with another value packed episode.

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We're going to focus on a little marketing today, particularly websites with Kurt Mueller.

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You can find his information and and social media links and everything. All of the above at kurtuhlir.com. Then his last name is spelled UHLIL.

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I RUHLIR so head over to there if you'd like to follow along, but I really appreciate your time and I would like to love to dive into this, this, uh Kirk, because as you know we have a lot of cross pollination between realtors and real estate investors and.

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You have you and your team have data from over 50,000 real estate agent websites.

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That shows what works.

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What doesn't I?

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I mean, there's got to be a lot of insight there, so I.

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Really appreciate your help here today.

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Yeah no, I'm glad I'm glad to.

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Be here yeah 50,000. Over each of the last three years, so it's 150,000 total. There's some overlap there, but.

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A lot not as well so.

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Yeah, wow, that's there's this.

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Was there anything you know I've got to jump right in?

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Was there anything out of.

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That data set that's.

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Prized you.

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Uhm yeah, I mean, but definitely for.

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I mean on the pure country, for real estate agents, but very much.

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I think when I you know, I think about anyone else or I think about you, know investors and and and those that are whatever they are they're doing online is so often whether it is agents or investors.

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Whether that's sourcing properties or they have properties, you know that they may be trying to get renters in is.

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Most people tend to take their websites and the completely wrong side.

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Of the approach.

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They talk about themselves much more than thinking about their customers.

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There are things that apply just to.

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Real estate agents.

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Such as do.

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They have like a modern home search that consumers are used to because that affects retention.

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But I mean if I'm then.

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Apply somewhat as well for.

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For from an investor's perspective. But at the end it's like this should be a hub that that tells the story of who you are.

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But in context of, we are anticipated audiences or who you're trying to get.

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In there, so whether.

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That's sourcing properties, or that's sourcing people to.

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You know to help.

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Fun future deals for investments that you're doing like part of your story.

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If you've done, say, 20 investments in properties, that's meaningful, but what the visitor cares about is, well, what are you going to do for me?

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And most people just don't take that approach.

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Yeah, do you think it's just a misunderstanding of that branding those branding principles that were taught when it comes to marketing or what?

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A lot of it is.

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Do you think is the cause of this?

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Yeah, a lot of it is.

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I mean, there's.

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There's nothing wrong with the Gary Vaynerchuk grant.

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Cardone's rich dad. Poor dad. You know out there.

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But you know, those are people that they've.

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Made billions of dollars.

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You know in things and so they tell so much of their story from their perspective.

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Well, most of us aren't there yet.

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I'm not there yet.

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And so, I've been really successful I've had.

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A lot of.

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Failures, but you know how do you?

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How did they get to be that successful?

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Well, they really Ultra focus on who their client was.

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And so, you know that whether that's a renter or somebody coming in on a deal for me.

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Or if it's.

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An agent, it's somebody that's going.

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To buy a property from me.

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And so, I always like to think about.

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Things and most of us most people.

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Just don't do it we.

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We listen to these gurus.

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These influencers that talk.

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About themselves as opposed to say hey, I know nothing about Kurt Mueller.

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And put on.

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Classes of somebody that knows nobody nothing.

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About Kurt Mueller and they come to.

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Kurt Mueller com.

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Why should they say?

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Why should they care whether they came from an article, or they actually came to the home page?

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What do you?

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What can you do for me?

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And 'cause that that's what people are searching for.

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You know they came from a blog post.

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I might give him an article of I'm an investor.

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Here's what you need to.

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Know about investing in real in real estate in the north Atlanta.

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Suburbs, that's where I.

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Live well, somebody may come from come to that article OK, but why should I invest with you?

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Or why should I sell my?

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Home to you.

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That's a very different mentality than I find that you know 90 to 95% of the websites that I evaluated.

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My team evaluated that like they just don't take that approach and I'm not sure if it's the branding principles versus people just.

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Don't slow down.

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To go, people don't know what I know and then like.

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That takes effort.

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To slow down.

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Do you think it's a problem like, especially with real estate agents?

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But I think it's starting to seep into real estate investors where you have large brokerages that kind of enforce these websites on their agents, and they're kind of very cool.

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Cookie cutter and kind of branding specific in that way.

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Uhm it.

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I mean it, it can be, but I mean it, it is a.

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It's a good thing.

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For brokerages that.

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You know when they're working with their agents to give them a website?

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But most of.

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Them are two-point cookie cutter websites there's.

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Sub domain websites.

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You know, every Keller Williams website youknowkurt.kw.com all of them pretty much look the same and you insert any brokerage.

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Name they all.

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Look the same. Not just the bag on kW.

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That's good because a lot of agents don't have anything.

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But I view.

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Those as business.

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Card websites you know.

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In that case, most of those sites aren't going to meet the consumers' needs 'cause their consumers are.

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Buyers and buyers are searching for homes.

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Most of them just.

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Don't give the.

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Search experience that consumers are used to.

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So, they balance.

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And go to a big portal and there's only a handful of.

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Big portals, one that dominates.

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But yeah, I've seen thousands of agents that have found a.

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Way to build websites.

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That do have a home search.

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It works, but even if your website, you're with one of the top five top ten brokerages guarantee they give you your own website, there's nothing in any of those brokerages that forbids you from having your own website.

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And so, for an individual agent, and especially if an agent is also, is also doing an investor or helping manage investment properties as well, you have to own your own brand and that means you need to own your own website.

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Could be Kurt Euler com. It could be. Kirk sells Roswell georgia.com, but.

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The I mean.

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It matters more, so I think.

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If you're if you're an agent B.

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'cause if you're invest if you're a real estate investor, well, you're your own business.

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Well, agents or their own business and Narf says an agent changes business.

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On average, our brokerage is only five years.

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That's been their number for, like the last five or six years.

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So, if you're with kW today, the averages say you're going to be with you.

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Tomorrow and with re/max then.

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In a couple more years.

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Well, what's going to be consistent about it's?

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Going to be what keeps your business growing.

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Your database of clients and your personal branding, which to me I mean.

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All the evidence.

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That I've seen says has to be around.

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A hub that you control, and that's not like.

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Social media is.

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Great, I don't care if you're an influencer, though.

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On Facebook, Tik T.O.K Instagram they can change your algorithms tomorrow and you may have 0 traffic.

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But if you've been piping people to your website, then there you always have a contact point with.

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And that matters whether you're an agent or whether.

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You're an investor.

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Sourcing deals or working or sourcing investors.

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Right?

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So, let's go down the practical path here.

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You know their people have; they decide they're going to have implement their own website.

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Or they're going to try to break out of this cookie cutter world.

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What are the top three things that they need to implement?

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Well, I mean the first thing is if in any way or their site that they believe that their audience, their, their ideal target client is going to be searching for properties.

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They have to ask themselves that they have a modern search tool on there and not one that uses I, you know subdomains or iframes.

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They're not good experiences, I mean when.

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Something takes you to.

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Search dot kurtuhlir.com.

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That's a.

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That's a URL shift as much as if.

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I send you to a completely different.

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Site, and so you usually see about a 90 to 95% falloff in visitors, so even if you send a bunch of people from an ad or done really good content marketing, you send them to that sub domain.

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You're probably going to see 90 to 95% of people drop out, and that's actually most real estate real estate websites. But your audience is investors. Not everybody has that, you know.

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But for those that do that, that's a meeting.

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Piece for me.

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The other piece is like the biggest piece is thinking about.

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It's a lead Gen perspective.

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You have to think about what my website is.

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What do?

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I have on there from calls to action that are actually going to help me connect with the person after this visit.

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For me, that's usually capturing an email address.

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Sometimes it may be capturing a.

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Mobile message you can text message.

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Then I would drop way down and say if I can get a social media follow.

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But you know, maybe that's my next thing.

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But as an investor, what I'm going to care about is an email or a text or phone number so I can follow up and I see way too many websites where somebody has done really good at content marketing.

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Maybe they've done really good at Facebook ads, and they drive.

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Traffic, but like I read this article that tells.

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Me exactly what I needed.

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To know but.

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There's like rather.

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Then like now you've.

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Won me with this article.

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It solved my.

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Problem you I've given you some authority because you know I.

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I believe what you just told me.

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And there's no pop up, or there's no hook that says if you want more tips like this, sign up for my newsletter.

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I only send out.

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Two things a month like it's amazing of the 150,000 ish.

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Websites that I visited.

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I mean, I'd say 70 to 80% of them have their. They might have a call to action somewhere on their website, but it is not on every page.

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Definitely not, and.

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You have to have those on every.

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Age and then I think just about.

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Uh, ideally you have something where your site is focused on retaining people long term.

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So, I mentioned I want to capture the contact information, but I want to be really clear about setting expectations.

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That says, hey, you found this destination and if you want to, if you want to dive in and binge today, that's great.

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Great, but if not, you need to bookmark this because I have new stuff that comes out for somebody just like you.

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I mean, most sites they're focused on everyone and it's really hard to get to become influential with everyone.

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But if I'm looking for people that are selling houses that aren't looking for all cash offers, they're looking for.

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The best price in Roswell, GA that's very different.

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Than focusing on someone that's looking.

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For a quick cash sale today.

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So, I.

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I you know, focusing on.

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Those two issues is very different.

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So, would you say that you know earlier you were talking about that personal branding and and not focusing on?

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What the customer or what that person is looking for is that the number one thing that's holding some of these real estate agents and investor sites back is that it's just got that down focus.

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Yeah, then I mean the number one.

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Thing is that they're, they're not they.

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Think that they.

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Made even think that they took the approach of building a site that that meets their needs.

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But what they forget is.

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Like we all have the knowledge of our own business and what we do in our past deals, and it takes that slowing.

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Down to say.

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The person that visits this site for the first time knows nothing that I know now and viewing the content in that way.

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And for me personally, like when I when I've done that, you know when I first started doing that, you know?

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Years ago, I've been Internet marketing for.

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Way too many years.

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Uhm, but it's like somebody pointed that out to me.

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And so, I read through like my website and went it.

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My idea client like if I'm my ideal client.

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I leave instantly.

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Like it was just it was like Kurt.

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Still, like you know.

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Kurt's great.

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Well, you don't even care about it.

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What you care about is your needs.

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At that time, you may reinforce.

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Later about OK, Kurt has a background.

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He's helped all of these thousands of entrepreneurs.

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He's, you know, done these things and that's why I should listen to him.

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But first, like that's just a different approach.

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So that would be the first thing is that approach, that's very client focused.

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Ideal audience focused.

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So, you know it, it sounds like there's a lot of moving pieces here, especially if you're a realtor, because what you're talking about is essentially competing with some of the big boys you know, like a Zillow, you know you're trying to show value to the user so that they can continue to come back and use you as a resource.

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That would be, you know, I'm going to use a term called IDX for example.

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There that would be that integration with the company so that there can be some searching and some value their in.

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In that regard, you you're going to have to need.

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You're going to have to have some skill on your team or be willing to invest this time too.

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Implement some of the stuff that you're talking about.

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Yeah, I mean I outside.

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I mean why?

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Because I've helped build some of the marketing channels that we all use today but blessed to be there when I came into real estate.

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I do work with showcase IDX and so I know the IDX space very well.

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And so, yes, a lot of thousands.

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Of agents end up choosing us and that's one.

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For them, one of the things that I see agents stumbling on and wasting thousands and thousands of dollars is believing.

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Website Development says hey.

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Let me just do it. You do it myself. I mean, I can basically say if you would like to have a basic idea, you know a mid-level acceptable IDX for even just one unless you need to plan on investing, you know 5 to $10 million.

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Do that.

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Is that what you're planning on doing?

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No, there's us.

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There are other providers where we're at individual IDX that people build.

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The best solution there.

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But there are.

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All in one solution too.

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That's a different type of solution.

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Where it's like.

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If you just need a CRM with.

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The website and everything else?

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Well, that's a different solution.

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She never tried to build something like that yourself.

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Other parts of marketing we would never.

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Do that, but you do have.

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To dedicate time to it.

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And for us, like we have clients that come to, say, showcase IDX and they've heard results from others like we have an agent in Nashville that receives like 50,000 plus.

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Searches are visitors from Google every month like that's just insane.

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I mean so he outrages Zillow for so many terms and it's wonderful for this business where they go.

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Oh, I could just pay $60.00 a month for showcase IDX and hosting and.

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You know, get help.

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My 14-year-old daughter build a website for me and that's a big step.

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That, but what agents mix that miss then, is well, it may be a technology like showcase, but you have the local knowledge and so if you're going to build local community pages to try to outrank Zillow, then you, as the agent, need to get the knowledge in your head that you would tell somebody in person about why they should move into this neighborhood.

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You need to get that on a page.

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In your website.

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So, either you need to do that yourself Jack or you need to have a VA, or you need to be able to voice note and give that to someone and not just once you need to.

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Do a couple of those.

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Today a couple, then next week couple, then the week after that it's the same thing as cold calling.

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You have to do that day in and day out and then you start to become.

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You know, like this gentleman I mentioned.

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In Nashville, who's just like killing it with traffic?

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Yeah, so just remind everybody.

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KurtUhlir.com.

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I'll make sure to have that link in the show notes.

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Reach out to Kurt and his team to see if they can maybe help you with something.

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Yes, but uhm, so it almost sounds like that is actually how we compete against Zillow and some of these other.

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You know Redfin and and all of these other huge websites is focus on what we know.

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Which is our backyard.

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Yeah, I think I mean, I think there's.

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Two pieces about how you about agents truly compete.

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The first is what we.

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Talked about, and as you mentioned, it's you have the knowledge that somebody like Asilah at the Pure National portal side just.

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They're never going to have; you know your local market better than anyone.

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So, when you use right technology in your site now you can actually beat on Google.

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Well, now you have a visitor to your website and the visitor is going to say well, why should I use Jack's website versus Zillow, which has kind of got that Coca Cola brand.

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Well for me, then that's where when I when I coach agents and I come into associations and misses, I encourage them, I'm.

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Like, well, there's also part.

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Of why you as an agent?

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Or an investor are different than.

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Say you know a big portal like that.

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Is how does, say Zillow specifically?

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How do they earn most of their money?

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You can see in their public filings the vast majority of their money comes from advertising.

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Their advertising side selling the consumers name contact.

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And budget info.

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From what they're searching, So what?

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That's very so.

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Zimbos idea is how do we make?

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The most money from kind of selling our content.

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Selling those.

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Contacts in introspectable very.

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You know they're very transparent about that.

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As an individual agent Jack.

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Your job is to get the best deal for that individual person.

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So, I just I kind of view, agents are much more like fiduciaries, which is actually what they are in some states, but more like a fee based financial planner.

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Hey, you're.

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You, on the other side, want to protect my information, as I probably do most consumers and I tell them what happens with their information.

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When they sign up on a portal.

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They they're floored like they're floating point my mom.

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My wife has said I ask it parties.

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I'm like, hey, do you know?

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What happens when you send it from some of these?

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Big portals and how your information gets.

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Shared around always like don't.

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Don't tell people that anymore like that becomes the conversation.

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Uhm, because people don't want their information sold, So what can?

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You do on.

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Your website, whether you're an agent or investor.

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Well, you can promise me that you're not going to give my.

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Information to anyone else.

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So, if and when I want to work.

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With you well.

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Then I'm going to choose to do that.

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I'm hopefully I'm going to, you know, allow you to.

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Message me, but once I give you that permission.

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Now we're in a relationship.

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It's not that you're trying to make money by selling my lead somewhere else.

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Now that's really interesting, so you know, as people are doing what you're suggesting, then and and focusing on what they know and and providing that content and trickling it out.

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Talk a little bit about what.

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They need to do to.

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Optimize that content and make sure that it is picked up by the search engines and and ranked accordingly.

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Yeah, so great question I mean.

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Google will tell you that.

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They don't care about like they.

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Don't care about links built to websites anymore or and that you can't.

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You can't game the system.

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Well now if.

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You're wanting to rank for condos in Roswell, GA, that's where.

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I live well.

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You need to be making sure that you're writing that piece of content.

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Having one page focused just on condos in Roswell, GA, it's not talking about condos in Alpha Retta.

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It's not talking about single family homes.

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Can you mention why a condo is better than some of those other choices?

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Right, somebody may want to live in this locale versus another, yes, but you need to be focused on meeting of visitors needs that would have searched for the term you're.

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Trying to rank.

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So, so that's part of it.

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But still the number all the tests show, no matter what.

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Google says the number one ranking factor.

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Once you have that kind.

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Content is offsite links.

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Now don't go to fiber and by then that'll mess up your site, but there are good services on the marketplace called Legit that has some wonderful people on it, but that's where you can either do the work yourself.

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Much of link building is things that an agent can do themselves, but I think.

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It really comes down to.

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Uhm, is it worth the time for you to do or is that something that's better to outsource to somebody else for them to do it for you?

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And that matters like know.

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Your audience is a lot of much more investors.

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I'd say it matters more from it, much more from an investors website perspective.

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Agents, as you said, are very much out there.

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Focused on Zillow and how they compete and get organic traffic, and that's hard.

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Not that it's.

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Easy to rank an investor website, but it's like we actually have a lot of IDX customers that you know there are agents as well, so they have a home search on there.

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Right, so they may have a residential buying focused website and they have a separate investor, an investment focused website.

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It's usually easier my in my experience to rate that investor site, there's less people searching for those terms.

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There's less competition for those terms, and so when you're writing content and material for that, that tends to be easier.

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And it's almost a little.

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Bit easier from a building links perspective too.

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It's kind of hard to only if you're writing good content as a as a real estate agent.

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I'm at home buying focus like you can get people to still link to you.

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You can go out to local businesses, but a lot of time for investors it is just easier to do interviews with local financial planners, estate planners, lawyers, all of the people that's.

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Run in the same spheres as you do that.

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Your visitors, whether.

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They're investing with you or they're selling to you that they're caring about.

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And so, when you interview those people.

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I find it's a little bit easier.

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On the investor side, to get people to link from their site back to you.

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Yeah, so in the end you have those people linking back to you it it's it's a sign to the search engines that these other sites are using you as a reference in some way.

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Yeah, yeah, it's kind of a vote of confidence for you. I mean, there's a lot of other factors. Google has, you know, I think more than 400 factors that come into their rankings, whether or not people are mentioning your name, Jack on you know on social media that matters whether or not they're sharing your articles, that all matters. It does matter how many people are watching you on YouTube or listening on Apple pod.

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Ask Google considers some of those things into whether or not they rank your sites as well, but links is one of those bigger factors.

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So, but I.

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Do very much view like your website, whether your investor or an agent should be the hub of everything you do.

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So, when you have a podcast, or you're interviewed by somebody you want to send people back to your website as thank you for mentioning my site.

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Earlier and putting in the show notes.

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That that allows people.

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That want to continue that conversation.

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To do so, and then those.

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Visitors also do end up helping your rankings as well.

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'cause in the end?

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I mean I'm I love I love paid ads; paid ads are wonderful for investors or agents looking for.

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A buyer client.

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Products, but in the end organic search visitors they convert better, their better clients.

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In the end is what I hear consistently and there's a variety reasons I believe for that I don't know for sure, and in the end, it ends up being much cheaper.

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It's longer I can.

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Start a Facebook ad campaign today and start seeing results by the end of the day.

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I might take me 3 to 9 months to see traffic from organic Google perspective and all with SEO, but in the end that's how you scale your business much more.

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So, it's pretty obvious that that you know a lot of people they're getting in becoming a realtor or a real estate investor.

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They that's the business that they they're focusing on, so it's all about building those teams and finding those people to fill these roles.

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When you're talking about building a website and doing the level of integration that you're talking about, what type of questions should a real estate agent and realtor investor should?

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Be asking to make sure that you know you talked about the independent developer earlier.

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What questions should we be asking to make sure it's the right fit?

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Uhm, great question.

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Uh, I want to ask questions like that.

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How many clients have you worked with that are exactly like me?

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Especially because you mentioned, like IDX.

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It's not that it's too complicated, but it is very different than just building a normal website, and so if that's if that needs to be on your website, I want to know how many IDX customers you've worked with before.

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And I don't usually want to hear you know small single digits I want.

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To hear dozens.

::

We I've had partners that have worked with that have built 10,000 plus websites and lots of those partners and like OK, you know you're going to have repeat stuff.

::

I'm often wanting to ask.

::

And I talked to some of them so.

::

Can you share me there?

::

Website So I can go look at them, so that's.

::

Uh, do they have experience in the specific?

::

Thing that I need, the next question I'm usually.

::

I want to ask with the website developer is.

::

Well, do I have to host?

::

My website with you, or can I?

::

Host it anywhere.

::

Because I, I and I see I we have partners at showcase, and I have friends outside of there that do host websites.

::

But, and there's nothing wrong with that, but.

::

When you choose to.

::

Work with a developer that won't that.

::

Will host your website.

::

Well, if they do a poor job.

::

You can't just go get another.

::

Developer and so I want to at least know that that's a possibility with you.

::

So, I have a friend Charles in San Diego.

::

He has hosting partners, but he will never host your site because he believes he does work for you. This is Jack's website.

::

It's not Charles's website and so he.

::

Does work for you?

::

And he hopes he will bring him up, you know you.

::

Will work with him monthly or in the future.

::

But he's an earn your business in the future.

::

Well, that's one of the things that I really care about.

::

I don't want to be tied in with somebody 'cause just more often than not when I find when somebody signs a contract and they're tide in entirely, it's one thing to.

::

to $:

::

Yeah, that that's I bet more often than not.

::

You're going to end up with.

::

Problems with that developer.

::

Now with that.

::

There are some.

::

There are some.

::

Some people like agent.

::

Fire they do wonderful.

::

Real estate agent websites they host.

::

They offer packages they offer wonderful.

::

Websites it's also one of the reasons because it's an all-in-one and they offer great solution.

::

They will be cheaper than if you just wanted to build it yourself, and so for me I'd be like, well, that's a wonderful tradeoff.

::

I'm writing you a check for $:

::

Again, with somebody else.

::

Right, so you know one of the things that I think the buzzword right now is becoming an influencer, and you know part of that would be having a good website that meets the criteria that you just like.

::

Get out, but how do?

::

We work with the social media networks in order to in hopes to be that influencer in our market.

::

A great question.

::

Start where you are.

::

Most of us are not grant Cardone.

::

Most of us are not Gary Vaynerchuk or Seth Godin so you know we, but we all have influence, whether it's with our kids or the people in our church and synagogues and so acknowledged

::

Where you're at know that you can grow.

::

You can grow an audience but accept where you're at and tell the stories based on where you're at.

::

I've been blessed to help be part of a small team taking the company public.

::

I've advised the President, United States but that's those are kind of 1 off.

::

I mean, that's not well.

::

It's wonderful to have those things that's different than who I.

::

Typically, yeah.

::

I tend to help larger companies scale and and you know and what I have a heart for is coaching.

::

What's now been 10s of thousands of individual solo entrepreneurs grow their businesses and shape them well.

::

I wasn't always that way that either.

::

So now I can talk about those, but I'm never going to try to put myself up against and portray myself.

::

As being Gary Vaynerchuk as I just mentioned, because he's been a very different league and so if I try to do that it's not going to be come across as author.

::

Nick, I don't have enough to back that up, and frankly I don't agree with a lot of that kind of that the same things that information you would give when you're at that level applies very differently than the conversations that we're having about your audience right now and knowing, hey, what's going to help them move most of them aren't going to have 50 grand.

::

To go drop on a website.

::

They you know they may be trying to do this themselves, or become an influencer themselves, and so one acknowledging where you're at and part of that then says, hey.

::

It doesn't have to be polished.

::

I've got a great set up with shelves and a nice camera and microphone, but with my phone I can.

::

I can record anything that I need to for YouTube Facebook reels.

::

I you know.

::

Like it's so simple to do that I have we mentioned like an influencer and how to start that there is a home inspector in Texas that I found because Facebook started showing him to me in his real in the wheels.

::

Now I follow him on Instagram.

::

I mean, he literally I won't gone back to see where he started.

::

He's more polished.

::

Well, but he literally just started by.

::

Bringing out his phone.

::

'cause that's you know he's on a roof or he's in a, you know, a plumbing cabin in the house and he shakes something that's clearly broken.

::

You know that you or I might.

::

Not have walked in and noticed, right?

::

Away and he'll shake it.

::

He goes.

::

It's not supposed to do that.

::

It's just catchy enough.

::

But that's his.

::

Personality too, and now he's grown so much and that's still so much of who he is, and all of his recordings are.

::

Done with his phone.

::

I can just tell as a marketer, it's like, so he didn't wait for.

::

Something set up.

::

He didn't hire a camera person to follow him around, he just pulls out his phone when he's on his job and he shares content and at least me I'm eating.

::

That up, I mean, I'm actually thinking more about like, you know, doing some investment properties myself because I was a little bit more scared before and after just a couple of months of watching him.

::

I'm like, well, one would never try to buy anything without an inspector, but I've seen so many things that go right and wrong and I'm like I'm much more confident now based on that.

::

And I mean, heck, I'm.

::

I'm mentioning him on the show.

::

Right now, so.

::

No, it it's amazing how many people your kind of you.

::

You are probably especially right.

::

You probably run into a lot of people who think they have to have a professional setup to get any of this.

::

Yeah, I mean you can get there.

::

I mean when I when I started, I was using just the microphone on.

::

My on my laptop.

::

Now I have, uh, a much nicer, you know, Logitech Brio camera that you know much clearer but still even there is like my business and my coaching stuff continued to grow.

::

So, then I could afford the Nice Rd.

::

Microphone that I have.

::

And it's like.

::

Like it, it's all things in time but, but even then, it's like my content is not much different than it was before.

::

Or but there is a certain level you need to have.

::

I mean, but everything that you can do today, I could do with my setup now I could have done on my phone here like I could upload directly and then listen to it to say was the audio good or bad?

::

'cause like so much is about video trying to build influence today.

::

Well, just because it was.

::

You know most people don't go listen to themselves and so when do I turn off videos, when do you turn off of videos when the audio sucks?

::

Like and so.

::

Listen to it and.

::

Go OK, that was good or bad?

::

OK, how can I just so you can still do it most time with your phone?

::

Yep, no, that that's interesting early.

::

Just a minute ago too, you mentioned that there are some things that you're at odds with regarding some of these gurus.

::

You know what you mentioned Gary, Vee and and and Grant Cardone and a few others on your website and a couple other places I heard them.

::

Words high achieving servant leadership is that part of that conflict?

::

I probably conflict with its.

::

A conflict with a lot, definitely.

::

I would say I kind of view either.

::

I've never heard the term.

::

Gary vaynerchuk.

::

He hears about how he talks about his employees and how he's there to serve them.

::

I would be surprised if he wouldn't consider himself.

::

Current leader, he has a few more expletives that I might have, but I'd like to throw to, yeah, but I did.

::

Just say the least.

::

I do appreciate that he says when he shows up to work like he acknowledges one is the owner.

::

Nobody is going to work as hard as he is, but also, he's there to make everybody else successful and and like, that's great, not everybody.

::

Has that viewpoint.

::

I think a lot of people are much more in the viewpoint of, you know, kind of churn and burning through people.

::

I do appreciate Gary Vee talking.

::

About how many out?

::

He's worked, but what I don't hear enough is, you know him pointing out that says hey, ever he meets, you need to make space for your team for people to take off.

::

Like I have somebody in my team who's.

::

Gone through a.

::

Personal tragedy.

::

They've lost their house.

::

They've had to move.

::

Do you need to consider things like that?

::

You need to have an environment where people feel like.

::

Hey, there's a.

::

Sickness in my family I shouldn't, and I know it's going to be ongoing for, you know, an unknown amount of time.

::

I shouldn't just have to hide it.

::

I should feel comfortable about bringing that.

::

To my boss, me.

::

Leader, if you're not for, or maybe with partners that you work with so.

::

That they know what's.

::

Going on, but you're not just going.

::

To lose your job on.

::

And most gurus I find don't take that approach with their teams.

::

They're very much and like what can you do for me this month this quarter?

::

And if you're not hitting your numbers, you're out, and that that makes sense in a long term for a business.

::

But I'm in companies.

::

Where I'm not trying too just.

::

Grow by 10% this.

::

Month this year I'm not trying.

::

To go by 20%.

::

I'm looking at how do we 10X?

::

Or 50X is business this year.

::

Here, and especially when I look at two and three years out to do that, I don't.

::

I need people that don't work that don't want to just work for me.

::

I need people.

::

That are committed to going to war for me, and to do that I.

::

They need to realize I have their back at all times.

::

Yeah, no, it.

::

That's really refreshing to hear.

::

And and I love that phrase that you just said I need people that aren't just working for me but are willing to go to war for me, that's a mindset or a level of commitment.

::

That is frankly I think is rare.

::

Yeah, but I mean it's when you talk to leaders, it's what they actually need.

::

I mean, you come and.

::

Work for me.

::

It's not a 40-hour job.

::

I you know, do I expect you to work Gary Gary Vee hours?

::

No, this isn't a 90-hour job either, but there may be push points and inflection points that happen where we have to be here, and we need to put in many more hours than typically would many weeks at a time.

::

But I mean over the last decade, I usually never have to have that conversation with somebody in my team and and the hundreds and sometimes thousands of people.

::

That have been in my team over the last.

::

OK, I they know ahead of time where we're at and people kind of self-identify hey I need to figure out I need to figure out how I can get some more hours and get and get through.

::

Maybe the next four weeks while.

::

We get over this inflection point and.

::

Then you get to back off too much more normal hours.

::

Uhm, but it's also, you know, people have to you.

::

Have to show.

::

That to people.

::

Uhm, I actually not personally I have to fight a lot of kind of the Gary Vee thing of wanting to work so many hours, so I love what I do.

::

I love the companies that I work with and so it's.

::

Really hard for.

::

Me like I don't want to watch Netflix or Hulu.

::

You know, like if I have extra time or my wife gone to sleep, and the kids are down like.

::

Me coming and doing emails.

::

Knocking out some strategy for people I love.

::

That and so I have to make sure to my team that they realize like I may work more hours because I just enjoy it.

::

But also, it's hard for me.

::

I have a very flexible work environment and so it's really hard for me to take vacation sometimes and I had to force myself to take vacation recently because I had some people in my team point out and said, you tell everybody.

::

That we have unlimited vacation within reason.

::

But we don't see.

::

It from you.

::

And so, like that, that was hard to hear.

::

No, that that makes sense.

::

I mean, you know.

::

The level of commitment that you as then as a leader, have to.

::

There's a commitment that you have to.

::

Make to your employees.

::

To get to achieve the level of what you're talking about.

::

But when you want somebody to go to war for you.

::

You have to show.

::

An equal if not higher level of loyalty to them.

::

Yeah, and it takes time, and it takes effort, but I mean.

::

It's the way I believe that.

::

You should run companies.

::

I haven't always been that way.

::

At one point I was the I, you know, I look at a global team and if you ask people to work for me on the team then some of them still won't talk to me today.

::

But I was the authoritative leader then that believed if you.

::

If one person on your team cried, it was then if everybody in the team cried.

::

It really wasn't.

::

You, as a leader, Kurt.

::

You just dialed it to.

::

11 and you need to dial it back just a little bit.

::

I'm appalled at that before.

::

I mean we were really successful, but I burnt out people.

::

I burned out families.

::

It was would have been miserable to work for me.

::

I mean, I made multiple people millionaires that still won't take my phone call today some haven't been able to apologize for that's very different than hey, I want you to be successful.

::

Jack, we're working together.

::

And we just need to.

::

Figure out how that happens over the long term.

::

Sure, well this this has been a great conversation and an eye opening, to say the least.

::

I know, I don't know if you were expecting to go into business and leadership, but I think that that was.

::

I hope people stayed to the end to listen to that piece.

::

There was a lot of value there.

::

One more time, head over to Kurt Euler. Com and that's UHLIR for some more information regarding Kurt and what he's doing in his team.

::

But I kind.

::

Of warned you, it was coming.

::

Kurt is there a question you wished?

::

I would have asked you here today.

::

Ah, one thing for me would just be what do I?

::

I maybe?

::

What would I have changed over the last?

::

You know 15.

::

I would have much more segmented my life.

::

So right now, my wife and I budget our time in skills the same way most people do money, and I didn't do that before and and so it's much easier to have those weeks where weeks and months where you put in many more hours.

::

When you intentionally plan for that.

::

And I didn't do that before.

::

I would just let those things completely run, and especially having been an investor myself, not in real estate, non-real estate properties but in other things those just engulfed so many things about my life as opposed to me blocking off what should be work hours and which should be personal hours.

::

Sure, no, that's great advice.

::

In fact, I I'm guilty of exactly that, the.

::

The concept of you know I block off time for everything but my personal life that's and now when you think about it.

::

Why are you?

::

Why are we starting businesses?

::

Why are we trying to do this?

::

It's in support, typically of giving a better life to our family.

::

But if you're not present for that.

::

What's the point?

::

Yeah, and it can be as easy, especially during those really busy months that I've mentioned where it's like, hey, I know the next 6 to 8 weeks going to be rough.

::

My wife and I will sit down and be like.

::

I don't also want that personal conflict when you're at work.

::

You're concerned that.

::

You're not with the family when your family.

::

You're like where all these things are gonna work, and so it's often like Tuesdays and Wednesdays or Tuesdays and Thursdays, where, like my, my wife and I we've ended thing where when those periods come up, I can work as many hours as I want on those days.

::

On the other days, I need to shut it down.

::

Let's say 5:30.

::

Years at that point, then it's very clear then, like I can pull all nighters, I can go longer.

::

But that's very different than just like.

::

Well, it's 7:00 o'clock every night and skirt.

::

Coming up, coming up to dinner or not.

::

Uhm, it's fine.

::

It's much better even if you're single to have that that with yourself as well.

::

We all need personal time or time with community and so to plan that up front.

::

It's so much better, but it's not just better for the family it's better for the businesses as well you if you're so loud for nuro, you're not for entrepreneur or investor, you might have.

::

Two or three people on your team if you want to be more successful in five years, you make sure that you have personal time.

::

Yeah, well Kurt, I really appreciate your time.

::

You're welcome back anytime.

::

I hope you'll take.

::

Me up on that invite.

::

Yeah, this is great.

::

If you learned at least one actionable step to incorporate into your real estate investing.

::

If so, please consider returning some of that value by leaving a positive review, subscribing to our YouTube channel, or joining our growing network on Facebook and Twitter.

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You can find links to all of our social media accounts in the show notes. See you next time.